The summer period marks an important anniversary for me. I used to be an evangelical Christian, and in the summer of 1966, I got ’saved’. I literally came out - I got up out of my seat in front of family and friends at a Billy Graham rally at the age of 13, and decided to follow Jesus. That faith and commitment lasted for a long time, at least until 2000. I was a lay preacher, a pastoral counsellor, a church leader, and a Christian author. I was in hook, line, and sinker. However, over the past 7 years I have slowly abandoned that faith. I wrote in the entry in elsewhere, of my feelings about that and promised to return to the reasons for doing so at some stage. Today seems to be a good day to recount them.
Of course, I know that if my Christian friends were reading this they would say that I am trying too hard. That the fact that I am having to write about it just proves how insecure I am in my new atheism. I would argue that since so many of them ask me about what has happened to me I have had to think things through, for their benefit, and to make sense of the massive change for myself. It didn’t happen overnight, and it didn’t happen in any neat, logical order, but it has happened, and what is written below is a poor attempt at an explanation after the event.
Although a degree of general unease and doubt had been happening over a number of years (Does God really answer prayers? He doesn’t seem to answer mine. What is the point of singing hymns? Why am I struggling to make a book written in a series of foreign cultures over thousands of years relevant to my life today? How long can I go on doing mental gymnastics about apparent inconsistencies?) the change really took off when I was ill for a year. During that time I spent a year virtually at home, unable to go out and face crowds, and certainly unable to go to church. To someone who had believed that my life would fall apart if I didn’t go to church, I discovered that I was actually enjoying the absence. I certainly wasn’t missing the two Sunday services, the leaders’ meeting on a Sunday afternoon, the midweek meeting, various other meetings with groups or individuals. I started to enjoy the freedom and realise that my faith was not helping my enjoyment of life or blood-pressure.
Over a number of years I had been doing more and more training as a counsellor which involved me in reading more about human beings in an attempt to understand them better. As this happened, I became more and more uneasy with the template for humanity that I had inherited from my Christian faith. If I was honest with myself, I knew how difficult (and superficial) change really was, and that neat Christian solutions to change often only tackled the surface leaving deeper issues untouched. It no longer seemed good enough to exhort people (and myself) to stop doing things because they were wrong. I started to question the wrongness of some things, and certainly questioned the ability of people to stop despite the apparently available divine aid.
Because of my background in church I initially used to receive a lot of requests for counselling from people within the Christian community. As a counsellor I started to see more of the Christian underbelly. From within the Christian community I have personally come across ’senior’ Christians involved in multiple affairs, anal rape, child sex abuse, cottaging in the local toilets, visiting male and female prostitutes, physical, sexual, emotional, and spiritual abuse, wife beating, and bullying. Need I go on? I write this, not in judgement, but simply to make the point - if Christianity did work, and if it did significantly change people at a deep level, that wasn’t always apparent from some Christians. Their tragic experiences, and my own inner struggles and powerlessness, just confirmed my own doubts about efficacy.
As part of my counsellor training I did a 3 year course that forced me to confront a very difficult issue that I had been wanting to avoid. Up until this point I had taken an evangelical view of homosexuality. Homosexuality was wrong because the Bible said so. I was to be compassionate towards gays, but not condone their practice. That was easy as I didn’t personally know any gays. On my course, two of the three tutors were gay. During the three years I got to know them, deeply respect them, and grew increasingly confused and ashamed as I listened to their stories of their inner struggles. I also started to read up-to-date research on homosexuality (Wilson, G. and Rahman, Q. (2005) Born Gay: The Psychobiology of Sex Orientation. London: Peter Owen) and concluded that I could no longer toe the party line. And if my party line was wrong on this, it could no longer be trusted and was probably wrong on lots of other things as well.
I know that many Christians would argue that I am rejecting the package and that I should not necessarily reject Christ himself. At the moment I cannot see a meaningful way of separating the two.
So for me, this summer is important. Writing this marks a kind different coming out. I am declaring myself a tentative non-believer. It feels slightly odd, but at the same time much more comfortable than where I was 7 years ago.
I think many of us do try to find a meaningful way of separating these two. For me it was also impossible.
Also, a sad realization for me came when I re-read the Gospels without the blinders on, I discovered some very disturbing concepts attributed to Christ himself.
Paul
Hi Thinking Man,
Came over here from de-conversion.com. Thanks for your honesty and openness.
I have a very similar background and story, so I can really relate to what you wrote. In particular, I know what you mean about the hidden and dirty underbelly of Christianity. I was always shocked at how much nastiness was going on just under the surface when you really got under the facades of the “saints” at church. Alcoholism, drug abuse, affairs, greed - none of it was any different from what I saw in the general public, except it was covered up under that “happy happy” Christian face on Sundays and at all those meetings.
I’m always interested in what sparks a de-conversion and why so many of our fellow believers keep on keeping on without (seemingly) ever questioning, while we get off the train at some point. Thanks for sharing your story, and I wish you the best.
Thanks Paul and Karen and for your empathy.
For a number of years I have been convinced that people rarely leave church initially because of a failure of theology. It is often due to a failure of relationship (sociology) that then leads to a questioning of belief. I suppose that what the three of us seem to have experienced is a failure of psychology - a disillusionment that things are SERIOUSLY not happening as they should - and this has lead to a questioning of the theological framework.
James
You certainly have an interesting perspective.
Dear Thinking Man
It’s good to know u r relieved from coming out of ur Christianity. Hope u’d be enjoying the would and universe in their Natural form.
Religions the world-over are primarily aimed at three main things - 1) to keep the flock of social animal that man is from digressing and neglecting his responsibilities from the human being’s path of positively contributing to the society and its growth; (2) to show there is someone up there when we are dejected; disappointed; dissillusioned and (3) to respect each other and other’s beliefs also while strengthinging our own beliefs and our own self and try to understand the Omnipresent Intelligent Energy Force that we call God when we lose sight of our path
We are never a lone individual - we will always be part of the larger society that is part of the Nature and Universe. In this, what we can and need to do best is to reassess the role of religious texts written centuries ago; find out hidden meanings therefrom and make them relevant for the the times that we live in.
Change is the only constant, we say. But in real life too, we too need to remain fresh - refresh - and be relevant like Nature and Universe. Now that you have `come out’ as u say, u’d be able to do it much better than before.
Look forward to know yr thoughts hereafter… Cheers
I think I’m quite a bit younger than the rest of the people who commented on this post, but my de-conversion had about the same path.
I was born into a family of semi-atheists and decided to enter religious education in first grade. I was babtised at the age of 10 and recieved my first communion at 11. My family never interfered with my so called faith, but at the age of 12 I moved from my predominantly catholic country, to Syria a semi-conservative Muslim country. As the years passed I began to lose my faith because I saw that what the Muslims believed was very close to what I believed. But instead of making me dig even more into Christianity, I lost it altogether. What my muslim friends were telling me were the same things I heard from my religious teacher, but it just sounded so absurd coming from them. Being exposed to such absurdities and extremes opened my eyes and since then I’ve been living in fear.
I can’t help being afraid when I see what kinds of prejudices and atrocities are being made in the name of religion.
I had a similar experience - realizing that the church around me was horrible and fake - all the while realizing that I was gay.
Years later I’ve since discovered that Christianity seems to work truer when there isn’t a church involved at all. Being a ‘broken’ Christian (ie one that doesn’t fit with the cogs of the church machine) is pleasantly liberating. And, I feel, more realistic
Good luck with it all man.
Congratulations on your courage to question your beliefs and use reason to see the truth. I am also in the stages of coming out as an atheist (from a typical Catholic family).
hi. thanx for the courage to write about this ~ certainly you’re not alone in this process. i have encountered many individuals that feel as thought they’re standing @ a similar crossroads. still, its difficult, in a way, to release something that provided such a core to your life … and now find yourself questioning that core … and everything else.
Buddha told his followers to question everything, including the things he said. Mark Twain asked the questions you are asking in his book What is Man, written over 100 years ago, but its still as relevant as ever ~ to this discussion. I highly recommend it. If you google “letters from the earth” you will find a prize piece of Twain’s writing … i recommend it, as well. Also I am reading Simone Weil, an jewish agnostic who wrote around the time of WW11 ~ she believed, but would not attach herself to a church, seeing any sort of church institution as self-idolatry.
I like to think of faith and belief in the supernal as a sort of continuum. Atheism is a belief system on that continuum, contrary to what many may think. I was raised in an ultra-catholic family. I don’t practice, and I no longer consider myself an atheist, tho I did for a while. For me clinging to atheism felt akin to what we’d describe as ‘being on the rebound.’ I admit, I felt real anger at the church … and its clergy and the whole notion of self idolatry that seems to define christianity. and the hypocrisy, as you’ve mentioned, it provides a destructive atmosphere. i am convinced that many of the most rigid, fundamental christian believers use their religion as a sort of opium ~ its simply a socially sanctioned drug. (marx did not get absolutely EVERYTHING wrong, did he?)
These issues of faith, belief, g-d, theology I spend a lot of time contemplating, reading and writing about. The NT is not and never was intended on being a factual historical record. It only ever was written as a faith document by the earliest fathers of the church. And the writings of the ancient judaic sages contains a lot of wisdom ~ not some lame, politically religious party line, but real thought and wisdom ~ if you want to see the wisdom of the OT … the judaic sholars are amazing. I have decided that each mystical belief paradigm or culture has a piece of the puzzle. And christianity … well, its way off the mark. IMHO.
Questioning g-d and what you were told does not mean we have no right to believe. Even being “angry” at g-d does not. I used to think that. But, now I think … there are many ways to get me from here (Vancouver) to, say, Calgary … and so, taking one or the other does not necessarily make me more ‘correct’ in my life path than anyone else. And like I said, we are supposed to question things. Why else would we possess the capacity for reason?
I am still wondering about the divinity of Christ. That’s my honest thoughts on that. I don’t know most days. Still, some of the things he said sounds wise … tho I fear that Christians have misinterpreted most of it and misunderstood him terribly. And so, the dude, if he ever existed (which really, in my mind, is besides the point), gets a bad wrap, because most of the sh1t that’s written about him is truth manipulated. I don’t doubt g-d exists, in some form that most humans have failed to grasp. But … I, too seek the answers. The truth ~ beware, its elusive, and anyone that tells you they have it likely does not. One can never go wrong if one questions … questions … questions.
Sorry to ramble. Best wishes …
hi … i’ll point you to this … which i wrote a while ago … it may interest you.
[...] so, and this is often more than emotional attachment to something that is wrong. I have written elsewhere about my own exchange of templates. However, one reason it took so long for me is that you can [...]
You have a really interesting story, Thinking Man. I am looking forward to reading your other posts.
You said something too that sparked interest in me.
You said,
“Although a degree of general unease and doubt had been happening over a number of years (Does God really answer prayers? He doesn’t seem to answer mine. ”
This is something that we all probably have thought about a lot, but it just came back to me. That made me think about unanswered prayers and the prayers that we all (the de-converted) prayed when we began our serious doubting. I don’t understand why God (if he exists) would not answer prayers then. Why he would not make the effort, even a tiny one, to make it apparent he is listening–especially since his omnicience should reveal that we will de-convert, or are prone to it. It is like, what more can WE do? If I called a friend 5 times a day for a year and she never answered the phone or talked to me, how could i believe she existed, let alone was the one who gave me everything I own and cares for me more than anyone else ever could?
It makes me really sad to think of all of us in our doubting times feeling so distanced from a God that we once put our trust and hope in. I mean, now I know we all feel more free, but it is just heartbreaking to imagine us all in that spot.
It kind of reminds me of times when a mother dies in war or from starvation, disease, etc–and her child is found with her but her child is alive. Like the child stayed with its mother because she was all they knew, but the mother is dead and can no longer nourish them. There are terrible scenes of children trying to nurse from their dead mother’s breast and such. It is just wrenching. I see that as us trying to cling onto God and his promises.
Thanks so much for sharing your story–I really look forward to conversing and sharing on d-conversion forums and all that
Thanks Marie.
I hadn’t thought about your point about prayer before so it was interesting and affirming. From our perspective we are trying to communicate and you are right, you would expect God to give us some more encouragement. (However, I know the Christian would say that God is there speaking, but we just can’t listen. That seems to be an argument that is often used to help them out of difficulty.)
I found the image of the child clinging to the dead mother very powerful. It reminded me of Nietzsche’s assertion that although God is dead, people still cling to the ‘Temple’. Having been inside church for nearly 40 years, I still confess to missing part of the experience, though I don’t go anymore - I found it just made me too angry.
It is one thing to know that your mother is dead. It is something else to have found a way of coping, or of creating significance and meaning in another way, with other relationships. That is bound to happen over a period of time, though the mourning of the death may linger for years.
[...] is to make ourselves look ridiculous because of being cut-off from a range of others. I have also written with embarrassment about how my own views about homosexuality changed once I actually met and got to know two gay [...]
[...] internal pressure to do so, and this is often more than emotional attachment. I have written elsewhere about my own exchange of templates. However, one reason it took so long for me is that you can [...]
What makes Jesus different from all other religious leaders? He went to his death willingly so that those who believed would not have to suffer the consequences of their wrongdoings. If things had ended there Jesus would have been like all those other leaders – A pile of dust!
Jesus is different because the Holy Bible says he came back from the grave, he defeated death! The whole Christian faith hinges upon that one statement. If there is no God then it won’t matter at all, when we die that will be it…nothing! But if there is a God in Heaven and what the Bible says is true…What then, where does that leave us?
We can spend much time exchanging comments, trying to justify our attitudes and actions in an attempt to prove or disprove that there is a God. But at the end of the day we have to rely upon faith and not feelings. Just a small grain of faith can work wonders, as doubting isn’t the same as disbelieving!
I often have doubts and find most days difficult, so I have written this prayer in the hope that it will help us doubters:
Lord,
Please help us to remember when our hearts fill with doubt, that doubt isn’t the same as disbelief.
Even your disciples had moments when they doubted; but you strengthened them, and we believe that you will also strengthen us, Lord.
We pray that we would not feel condemned in any way, as we know that your love for us is unconditional, and to have doubts is part of the way you designed us.
Amen
[...] the good things were asked for by faithful people and the results never came. I have written elsewhere about the part that unanswered prayers played in my own loss of faith. And as I thought about the [...]
[...] 1st, 2007 by athinkingman Regular readers will be aware of my recent Coming Out. Since then, at least two friends have sincerely and earnestly said: “What about [...]
[...] of my adult life to date) of operating within a particular world view (evangelical Christianity) I came to the conclusion that I had been wrong, and started to see the world differently. It was against that background [...]
[...] reason for my own loss of faith (see Coming Out) was my growing conviction that my faith did not provide any convincing ability to produce deep, [...]
[...] her anger at this suggestion, and develops her reasons. So much of her experience and reasoning resonated with my own. It echoed my own anger at a religious faith which occasionally seems so blind to what it is [...]
thankyou for honesty
what i have come to realise-thats there’s not many adults in the world and thats the same in the church
-like a 12 step programme people stop at the ‘becoming a christain’ and like absteince in a room of recoverings addicts/acoholics you get some real sickies who have no awarness and stay stuck in behaviors and don’t go on or don’t know how to develop a deeper their understanding or their being-they become reactors and actors. trying to grow up and to make a true connection with yourself is to me were you meet a power greater than yourself, but this journey can be very very difficult. Innerchilds issues cause incredible pain through acting ou , individuals aren’t aware and telling them isn’t an option either, it was once suggested to me that what hitler did waswith his out of control inner child-his inner child destroyed millions. We need wise ones on this planet cause so many are lost-and a church is usually were people go looking. Sound like individuals had voiced to you because they felt safe and if one soul keep trying because of ‘being heard’ does that not tell you of how improtant your presence was in church. It sadens me that good people leave cause of rotten ones. Again thank you for your time and listening ear may be we will talk again some day-llij
Thanks for writing
it is silly not to be deconverted. wholly silly. to stay within the bounds of something that had been corrupted for eons is totally absurd.
too many hands took part in downgrading the essence and importance of the Holy Book such that it is truer to spell its first letters in lower case than in caps because while many parts of it are significant, its gestalt leaves so much room for the seeker.
we will never find the real awe and inspiration the way Tibetan Buddhists approach their belief towards the supernatural.
or the way really honest and true-to-form Muslims do worship.
too far from it.
however i like your being sort of, just sort of, apologetic towards the rest of the world who prefer blindness than wanting to see the real light. the penultimate humility that usually comes from personal liberation.
one commends you for being forthright about your turnaround experience and it speaks about how much more mortals like me need to grapple with both the ethereal and realities around us. in your courage i see light myself. although my motivation for treading the path similar to yours is entirely different, i am most certainly inspired to move on.
to commenter snowymaze, the very spirit of the writer’s piece is what led me to question my beliefs. the son of the carpenter did not die and come back from the grave, for instance and not just because of that bbc-sponsored documentary in book form. and so on.
great to have you in the blog world! more power! and i hope there are more like you and may your tribe increase in billionsfold!!!
[...] (See also: Coming Out.) [...]